Jewish Lords' Witness

Belief 3 - The 2 Presences of the Christ

​Christ's Presences

There are 4 periods of time when Jesus is present on the earth although not plainly visible except by a sign of His presence. This is indicated in the gospels from which we conclude that there are two presences of the Christ excluding the period when He was physically alive on the earth prior to His crucifixion. (NB I have provided alternative translations together with the original Greek text with key words shown in red for reasons that I explain towards the end of this paper):

1 And going out, Jesus left the temple. And His disciples came to show Him the buildings of the temple. (GLT)

1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, (YLT)

1Καὶ ἐξελθὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ τοῦ ἱεροῦ ἐπορεύετο, καὶ προσῆλθον οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ ἐπιδεῖξαι αὐτῷ τὰς οἰκοδομὰς τοῦ ἱεροῦ· (WHO)

2 But Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There will not at all be left one stone on a stone which in no way will not be thrown down. (GLT)

2 and Jesus said to them, 'Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.' (YLT)

2ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται. (WHO)

3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And, What [is] the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age? (Matthew 24 GLT)

3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what {is} the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' (Matthew 24 YLT)

3Καθημένου δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοῦ Ὄρους τῶν Ἐλαιῶν προσῆλθον αὐτῷ οἱ μαθηταὶ κατ' ἰδίαν λέγοντες Εἰπὸν ἡμῖν πότε ταῦτα ἔσται, καὶ τί τὸ σημεῖον τῆς σῆς παρουσίας καὶ συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος. (Matthew 24 WHO)

3 And [as] He [was] sitting in the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew questioned Him privately: (Mark 13 GLT)

So in Matthew and in Mark the 4 apostles ask Jesus for a sign of a presence (This, in itself, is a coded reference to 4 presences or parts of presences). But clearly Jesus was physically present when he was being asked the question. So the apostles are asking for a sign of his future presence knowing that he is going to be physically absent. 

Jesus Himself provided the answer to the sign of the first presence in describing the physical end of the first temple. So, Jesus would be present in AD70, i.e. 37 years after His physical death! This was at the knocking down of the temple in Jerusalem, by the Roman general Titus in 70 AD, and was a sign of a presence (the 1st presence) occurring. Furthermore, the sign of a presence is also a sign of the conclusion of the system of things as identified by the apostles’ question itself. So, the end of the world also occurs during a presence (the 2nd presence).

If there were to be one continuous presence all the way from Jesus' physical death until the end of the world then, since he would never be absent, he would not need to give us a sign for his presence. So, it is apparent that the first presence ended, and was followed by a period of absence before a second presence would begin.

So, the end of the Jewish system of things marked by the destruction of the physical temple in Jerusalem by Titus in 70 CE lies in the first presence, and the end of the world lies in the second presence. Since a sign is needed to detect Jesus' presence, his presence cannot be plainly visible for these two presences.

Jesus says to his disciples: 'Do ye not see all these?’, referring to the buildings of the temple. Now of course the disciples, sitting upon the mount of olives, could see the temple buildings; in fact they pointed these buildings out to him. So, in the literal meaning, yes they could see them. But in the greater meaning the answer is no. Any unanswered question asked in the scriptures with two possible answers (normally yes and no), has the answer in one word symbolic thread, being the opposite of the answer in the literal meaning or straight symbolic meaning (the event symbolism) – TBC ref. [C13b] Multiple Options/Outcomes Principle

The temple buildings in the greater meaning are invisible physically just like Jesus' 1st and 2nd presences. Now the use of the plural word 'buildings', means that there are several true Christian religions, in the temple with the 4 cornerstones, for the scripture does not say 'building' of the temple (TBC ref. [46] The 4 True Christian Churches). But the buildings, the true religions, and the stones of the (buildings of) the temple are physically invisible in the greater meaning because the building is made out of living stones, i.e. sanctified men and women. These true Christians are invisible in that they do not look like temple stones and do not look physically any different to any other human:

19 So, then, you are no longer strangers and tenants, but [you are] fellow citizens of the saints and [of the] family of God,
20 being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being [the] cornerstone,
21 in whom all the building being fitted together grows into a holy temple in [the] Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in [the] Spirit. (Ephesians 2 GLT)

One or more of the buildings of this grand temple of all Christianity must contain the living stones of Jesus' very body, the First New Covenant (1NC) Saints. To see why the 1NC Saints are his body, please consider the following scriptures...

30 We are members of his body (Ephesians 5).

18 He is the head of the body, the congregation (Colossians 1).

23 Because a husband is head of his wife, as the Christ also is head of the congregation, he being a saviour of [this] body (Ephesians 5).

The marriage here is the new covenant. The 1NC saints collectively are Jesus' bride, engaged to him through this covenant. (ref. Jewish Weddings). Since a fiancée or wife is one flesh with her husband, the 1NC Saints represent Jesus’ presences while He Himself is not on the earth:

24 Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2 GLT)

So the two presences are split by an absence of Jesus which is an absence of his flesh, which is an absence of his wife-to-be, his fiancé. This is an absence of 1NC Saints with a valid water baptism (since Jesus' flesh must be clean). But since these are the spirit temple, we can see clearly that their first temple in the first presence is knocked down, so that no living stone rests upon no living stone. This is then replaced by a second temple in the second presence. 

Two invisible presences mean two temples of 1NC saints, which means two true religions. We can see this in the account of the temple curtain that Paul describes as representing Jesus' flesh, which was rent in two from top to bottom at Jesus' death. 

51 And, behold! The veil of the temple was torn into two from above as far as below. And the earth quaked, and the rocks were sheared! (Matthew 27 GLT)

19 Therefore, brothers, having confidence for the entering of the [Holy of] Holies by the blood of Jesus,
20 which He consecrated for us, a new and living way through the veil; that is, His flesh; (Hebrews 10 GLT)

This would mean that our entrance to the Kingdom of God, through this curtain, cannot occur until all the 1NC saints are dead. They represent Jesus’ flesh and Jesus’ flesh is the temple curtain. The temple curtain prevented everyone from entering the most holy, which prefigures the Kingdom of God in heaven.

Whilst Jesus was alive, his physical body, his flesh, was in one piece. After He died, His body became that of his wife, the 1NC saints, and they are split in two into the two invisible presences of the Christ. The gap in time between the buildings (plural) of the spiritual temple, the gap between the presences, is represented by the two halves of the curtain, his flesh, his wife, his body by covenant. It is also prefigured by the temporal gap in time between the two physical stone temples of the Jews, Solomon's temple and Zerubbabel's temple.

Christ's Coming

But we can also have a ‘coming’ during the presence of the Christ:

43 But know this, that if the housemaster had known in what watch the thief comes, he would have watched and not have allowed his house to be dug through. (GLT)

43ἐκεῖνο δὲ γινώσκετε ὅτι εἰ ᾔδει ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης ποίᾳ φυλακῇ ὁ κλέπτης ἔρχεται, ἐγρηγόρησεν ἂν καὶ οὐκ ἂν εἴασεν διορυχθῆναι τὴν οἰκίαν αὐτοῦ. (WHO)

44 Because of this, you also be ready, for in that hour you think not, the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 24 GLT)

44διὰ τοῦτο καὶ ὑμεῖς γίνεσθε ἕτοιμοι, ὅτι ᾗ οὐ δοκεῖτε ὥρᾳ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἔρχεται. (Matthew 24 WHO)

So, a ‘coming’ of Christ can occur during a presence. When Jesus comes during his presence, to inspect the temple of his wife, he not only throws out the bad saints but he knocks down the whole temple! We know that the spiritual temple of the 1NC saints is destroyed by Jesus, whilst they are still around, i.e. during his presence, because as we have read above:

2 and Jesus said to them, 'Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.’ (Matthew 24 YLT)

This is a scripture which not only applies to the physical stones in the literal meaning, but also applies to the living stones, the 1NC saints in the symbolic meaning. 

The broken-down temple in Jerusalem today is a prophecy that the spiritual temple of the 1NC saints will likewise be destroyed, once in each presence! When a spiritual temple is knocked down, that church becomes a false religion. The wicked living stones who stay in that false religion then die, being bound into their bundle of weeds by their love of their status in that church. But the good living stones, who seek not the glory of man but the glory of God, the wheat, then move to the next true religion and form the next temple. These ones continue to live. For a stone can be used in more than one building:

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones following the Lamb wherever He may go. These were redeemed from among men as [a] firstfruit to God and to the Lamb. (Revelation 14 GLT)

The following is a very important scripture to understand.

7 Therefore, brothers, be long-suffering until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being long-suffering over it until it may receive [the] early and the latter rain. (GLT)

7 Be patient, then, brethren, till the presence of the Lord; lo, the husbandman doth expect the precious fruit of the earth, being patient for it, till he may receive rain -- early and latter; (YLT)

7Μακροθυμήσατε οὖν, ἀδελφοί, ἕως τῆς παρουσίας τοῦ κυρίου. ἰδοὺ ὁ γεωργὸς ἐκδέχεται τὸν τίμιον καρπὸν τῆς γῆς, μακροθυμῶν ἐπ' αὐτῷ ἕως λάβῃ πρόϊμον καὶ ὄψιμον. (WHO)

8 You also be long-suffering. Set your hearts firmly, because the coming of the Lord has drawn near. (James 5 GLT)

8 be patient, ye also; establish your hearts, because the presence of the Lord hath drawn nigh; (James 5 YLT)

8μακροθυμήσατε καὶ ὑμεῖς, στηρίξατε τὰς καρδίας ὑμῶν, ὅτι ἡ παρουσία τοῦ κυρίου ἤγγικεν. (James 5 WHO)

James said this in the first century whilst 1NC Saints were around. Why would he ask people who defined the presence of the Christ to wait until the presence of the Lord?

The presence of the Lord is when the 'precious fruit of the earth' is harvested. Christian fruit gets both the early rain and the late rain. These rains are water baptisms into two true religions in a presence. The gap between the early rain and the late rain is a gap in the presence of the Christ. During this gap the bride of Christ has no water baptism and is therefore unclean in the flesh and so is temporarily disconnected from Jesus’ holy body and is therefore not his flesh.

The 1NC Saints on earth are present as Jesus' fiancée, his flesh, only if that flesh is clean, i.e. water baptised. Jesus cannot be united with unclean flesh. The water baptism gives a Christian a clean flesh, in the sense that it washes away sins of the past and entitles him to a perfect non-ageing fleshly body in the Kingdom of God - see [33] The start and end of the three baptisms.

So Jesus is not present through the 1NC saints on earth if they have lost their water baptism. The Roman Catholic church lost its water baptism on 79Tishri14 - see [152] Daniel 12: The Water Baptisms of FDS1 and FDS3. That ended the first part of the first presence. Then there was a 10 year gap before the presence restarted on 89Tishri14. For Jesus said to Peter...

18 Most truly I say to you, When you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old you will stretch out your hands and another [man] will gird you and bear you where you do not wish.
19 This he said to signify by what sort of death he would glorify God. So, when he had said this, he said to him: Continue following me. (John 21 NWT)

Stretching out hands is a witness to 10x precisely. That is the period of time that Peter is somewhere he does not want to be having been taken there by another. That somewhere is outside of Jesus' body. It is the gap in the first presence. That gap is precisely 10 years long. For more see [152] Daniel 12: The Water Baptisms of FDS1 and FDS3.

In similar fashion in the second presence, the Watchtower lost its water baptism on 2001Heshvan14 when the awful letter to the Bethels of 2001Heshvan10/11, the abomination causing desolation, was placed. This letter showed no repentance for their riding the beast of the UN when they became a UN NGO. They showed no repentance for a sin that the book of Revelation calls harlotry or for putting the throne of the UN into the temple of Jehovah. This ended the first part of the second presence which ran from 1889Ab9, when Charles Russell was sanctified according to the pattern of the Watchtower church to 2001Heshvan14 (see [42] The Fundamental Pattern of Adam's Life and Jesus' Life and every true church).

Then Laodicea, an internal sect of the JWs which stole the LW water baptism and the crown of Elijah4, carried the second part of the second presence from 2006Iyyar14 (4½ times of Daniel12 after 2001Heshvan14, when the Watchtower lost its water baptism).

For the interested reader, I have produced two different translations together with the original Greek text in several of the key scriptures above. The Greek word ‘παρουσίας – Parousia’ can take the meaning of ‘coming’ or ‘presence’. The Greek word ‘ἔρχεται – Erchomai’ specifically means ‘to come’. I have indicated the key words and their translations in red text in the relevant scriptures above. Having further considered the implications of the use of these two words in the context of the difference between Christ’s presence and His coming, I think this supports the LW understanding of this topic area. However, it is noteworthy that numerous translations translate the word for ‘presence’ as ‘coming’ so the bible reader will need to understand this confusing factor.

Ironically Jesus is Himself physically absent during His presence; hence His physical coming during His presence! His presence is represented solely by His wife , the 1NC Saints.

​​Date of Publication: 9th April 2020